Building a Business That Stands the Test of Time

Alana Muller:
Welcome to Enterprise.ing, a podcast from Enterprise Bank & Trust that's empowering business leaders one conversation at a time. Each week, we'll hear from top business professionals about lessons on leadership and entrepreneurship that they've learned along the way. I'm your host, Alana Muller, an entrepreneurial executive leader whose primary focus is to connect, inspire and empower community. We at Enterprise Bank & Trust thank you for tuning into another episode. Welcome back, listeners. McAnany, Van Cleave & Phillips, or MVP Law, established in Kansas City, Kansas in 1901 provides legal expertise in public and private sector, workers' compensation, general liability, and employment and education law, with eight offices in the ­six-state region, including Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma. Today, I'm pleased to welcome MVP Law COO Phillip Sanders and Marketing Manager Sara Slaven to the Enterprise.ing podcast studio. Thank you for being with me today.

Phillip Sanders:
Thanks for having us.

Sarah Slaven:
So glad to be here.

Alana Muller:
So delighted to have you. Well, so, let's do this. Let's kick off our conversation, Phil, with you. You've been with MVP Law for nearly two decades. Tell us about the firm and what you call the “MVP difference.”

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah, so I've been with the firm, yeah, coming up on 20 years. Fifteen years prior to that, I was a client, and so they defended me in a lot of my employment matters and everything else. They came to me and wanted to know if I wanted to join the firm. So, I did, and one of the primary reasons I did was the way that they conduct business, the way that they serve their clients. I think a lot of people watch too much TV and law firm shows. So, when you talk about the MVP difference, we’re nothing like the law firms on TV. It does not work that way. So, there's several key points to that that create the MVP way, and one is that we just don't take ourselves too seriously.

I've always described the firm as a large group of really good people who happen to be lawyers and that's what we do, but that's not who we are. So, the image that we're going to portray is about service, about taking care of people, about providing awesome solutions to problems, and then going the extra mile and doing it in a very courteous, respectful, professional way in that when we say we're not the typical law firm, it's just because we don't fit what I think most of the public would think a law firm is. For instance, people think we're all just suits and ties, stuffy, a bunch of men, which we're not. So, the big difference is just in how we feel about ourselves and our primary focus is in our clients and the challenges that they have and us taking care of them.

Alana Muller:
I think that's really special. Well, and the fact that you chose to join this firm based on what you saw as a client, I think, is telling, right? I mean, it tells you what the culture was like. Sarah, are you noticing that same thing? Is that one of the reasons that you joined the firm as well?

Sarah Slaven:
Oh, absolutely. Truly, the people are just so welcoming, so down to earth. We have a wide variety and a diverse group of people from all over the Midwest. You join the firm and it feels like you've been here, good and bad, for 15 years after your first month. You're like, "I know everybody. We're in this, let's go," and you're like, "Wait, I just started last month. Can we catch up for a minute?"

But that's so wonderful because I get to come to work and I get to work with wonderful people. It's really easy to market a group of people who do a great job and you're like, "Yeah, you want them to be your attorney because they're just a very lovely human being." They're going to do great work for you and they're going to be fun to talk with. When you're like, "Oh, okay, we talked about our case. Here's five minutes. How are you kids? How are their dogs? How was that trip that you were talking about last week?" It's just enjoyable.

Alana Muller:
You care about each other, right? You care about each other, and it's more like a family. That's really nice, really nice.

Phillip Sanders:
We've been accused of that, and actually, we really stress that. That is something that is really, really important to us is that family feel. I think that's how a firm stays together 125 years. We celebrate next year. There's been no major acquisitions or split ups or anything else. McAnany, Van Cleave & Phillips, 1901, KCK law firm, still just doing it the right way, treating people the right way, and that really creates longevity.

Alana Muller:
I love that. I love that. Well, it leads me to something I wanted to ask you about, Sarah. I know that one of the firm's core beliefs is a focus on what you have called “real relationships,” and in fact, that's one of your primary responsibilities for the firm. How does that manifest itself in your daily work, and what are some of the ways in which you build trusting, close-knit relationships with firm associates as you've described and with clients?

Sarah Slaven:
Absolutely. Really, it starts with showing up and getting to know people and being genuine. If you don't start off a relationship with a genuine desire to get to know somebody and build that trust back and forth, you can have a surface-level relationship and sometimes that's what you need. But if you really want to dig deep and get to know people, just being genuine and showing up I think is step one. Then in my role, as you mentioned, I interact a lot with all of our attorneys across the firm, as I help all 70+ market and connect with their clients, whether that be in person, close to them, whether that be virtually through seminars or webinars, and giving them the guidance to help: “Here's what we're going to do. Here's some great ways that you can connect with these people and build the relationship.” So that they're going to come back and say, "Yes, I would love to do this work, but also I want to say, 'How are you doing? I heard this happened. You doing good? That's wonderful news.'" Somebody's getting married, making it that friendship. I get emails constantly from people, from our attorneys who are like, "Oh, yeah, we just took so-and-so to dinner because they were in town and they came in for this event.”

I got an email from the client and they said they couldn't stop laughing, and that was the best time they had had for several weeks. So, building that rapport really sets the groundwork for a great working relationship. To me, the real relationships with our clients, with our industry connections, with our vendors, everybody we interact with, that's just the core of who we are and I think why we've been around for nearly 125 years.

Alana Muller:
Well, I like that expression, “real relationships,” and just, not only the authenticity, but the partnership that you're building. That this is somebody going to dinner and laughing all night with their attorney. You don't usually hear those kinds of things.

Phillip Sanders:
No, not with an attorney.

Alana Muller:
Can you even imagine?

Phillip Sanders:
I'll give you an example about the real relationships as well, is, so it's a business dinner and everything else… we create real relationships with our clients. Just recently, one of our clients, who's a very, very great client, she told us that her sister’s family house burned down and we don't know her. We don't have a relationship with her, but we have a real relationship with our client and this is her sister. So, we set a contribution up, but then also we create a box, kind of…

Alana Muller:
A care box.

Phillip Sanders:
It's just a care box of, "Hey, we heard this. That's horrible. Just letting you know, hey, we care about you." A lot of companies will say relationships, but the “real” for me is they go below tier one. So, Sarah mentioned dogs, cats, kids, a client's grandparent passes away. If they care enough to tell us, we care enough to recognize that. So, we'll send flowers, the care package for a burned home. She's got three kids, and so we're going to throw some stuff in there for the kids. That is the real relationship because, quite frankly, what we believe is that's the right thing to do.

Alana Muller:
Yeah, yeah. Well, I just love that, and I appreciate you sharing that. Even as I'm listening to you describe this, you can almost sense the love. I know this is a business and that there is a profit motive that we all have to have when it comes to business, but what I really love about it is that you're making it very human, that the relationships are the key component of it that matters to you and that you're living your values. I think that's really incredibly special. Well, so Phil, sticking with values for a minute, given that innovation is another one of the core values at McAnany, Van Cleave & Phillips, what is something that MVP Law is working on now that you're especially excited about when it comes to that notion of innovation?

Phillip Sanders:
So one, our staff is still 99.5% remote and have been since COVID. So, we created the technology and the workflow and the management system and the communication system that has allowed us to be very successful. So, rather than… we see a lot of the companies struggling with a mandate, “Oh, we have to come back to work because that's what you're supposed to do,” being our own mind, our own thoughts, our own innovations was, “No, we've created a solution where that's not absolutely critical.” There's a whole other solution that you have to create in order to maintain that and make it successful. You can't just say, "Okay, we're just going to work from home." So, we have just extensive communication with all the members of our firm, which are spread out now all across the country.

Alana Muller:
Wow.

Phillip Sanders:
Because remote work… we've got employees in Maryland, Florida, South Carolina, Texas, Arkansas, Colorado, where we're not servicing clients in those states. So, for me, to do that successfully not just as a mandate because of COVID, but now because that is part of our success and our ability to attract and retain talent, is, I think, that's an innovation because we're doing it well.

Alana Muller:
Yeah. Is there a particular platform? Did you build your own platform or are you using a platform that's out there?

Phillip Sanders:
So, that's the real relationships. So, an example is since COVID — and we do it every week — is [that] we have a 3:30 Wednesday staff meeting. It's a Zoom meeting where we have 80 to 100 people on the Zoom call, and we start that meeting with “tell me some good news or just tell me some bad news. Tell me what's going on with your life.” So, we are intimately engaged with our staff on a weekly basis and then we'll create topics or we'll just do a free-for-all. It's almost like a little townhall chat. Again, back to the real relationships, is that level of… and I'm in that meeting every week.

Alana Muller:
Well, it sounds like everybody shows up, people are showing up. They want to be there, it sounds like.

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah, I mean, one, it gets a little crazy. I mean, the staff drives the topics and you create a format of just openness to where the employees, they're just throwing stuff out. The funniest thing ever was one of our employees says, "I'm taking a vacation in Arkansas, and the whole thing is [that] I'm going down there to cuddle with cows."

Alana Muller.
Oh, okay.

Phillip Sanders:
That was my reaction.

Alana Muller:
And the conversation went from there.

Phillip Sanders:
That's a real thing.

Sarah Slaven:
[inaudible 00:12:22] conversation.

Alana Muller:
That was a real thing.

Phillip Sanders:
So it's like, "I guess we're going there." So off we go. We talk business and we're always talking about things that impact them. But actually, have impacted everybody and they had a good time with it and that creates those relationships.

Alana Muller:
Yeah, that's really fun. I do love it that people want to be there. They want to show up and that they show up fully engaged. It's not your typical Zoom meeting where their cameras are off. They're actually there, right?

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah. Here's the other thing, I'm never going to misrepresent. We are normal human beings, and so we have some folks that are not turning their cameras on, but there's a whole bunch that are.

Alana Muller:
I love it. I think that's great. Sarah, I know that MVP is deeply engaged in its communities and you've even talked a little bit about that already. What our listeners may not know is that the firm is a consistent participant in what we call the Enterprise Bank & Trust “Enterprise Games,” which brings together companies across the Kansas City Metro for a day-long spirited, if you will, competitive event that raises money for a variety of charities.

In fact, MVP Law won the games and took the grand prize in the inaugural year, which I just have to say congratulations again. Tell us about that experience, and what about your involvement with Kids' Chance of Missouri? Tell me about the involvement with Kids' Chance of Missouri, which I know is the recipient of your prize money from Enterprise Games.

Sarah Slaven:
Yes, I would love to, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Oh, my gosh. Since the first year of Enterprise Games, let me tell you, we've been all in and we love the opportunity and we love that Enterprise is giving back to our community. I get it double-sided. I get all the hype from MVP for our team, for playing. We're winning, we're doing great. Then I get all the hype from Kids' Chance of Missouri because we're taking home the check and we're giving more scholarships. Over the last three years, the Kids' Chance of Missouri Chapter has given about half a million dollars in scholarship.

Alana Muller:
My goodness.

Sarah Slaven:
A significant amount of money. So, it's amazing. Enterprise has contributed to that greatly with our participation in the Enterprise Games. I mean, what a wonderful opportunity to bring people together and put your money where your mouth is and give back to so many great organizations who are involved in the game.

Alana Muller:
Remarkable.

Sarah Slaven:
Remarkable. First year, we're like, "Okay, what's going on?" We get in there. We take home the grand prize, it's great. The next year we're like, "Okay, we got to get serious. People know what's up now." We're having tryouts. We're saying, "No, you can't play. You're not good enough. We’ve got to get the best people."

Alana Muller:
Okay. I mean, is there a particular game? Is it the giant Connect 4®? Is that the one, or what's the thing that really draws them in? Is it Giant Jenga®? You’ve got to tell me.

Sarah Slaven:
I think all of it. I feel like pickleball always gets real intense. Jenga® is the most intense of all the games, at least for me, personally. I'm watching somebody in this Jenga® tower, it's like 10 feet tall. They're standing on chairs to get... I'm like, "My brain can't compute."

Alana Muller:
I love it.

Sarah Slaven:
It's a great time.

Phillip Sanders:
Each group, it just fits their personality. So, it's really fun to watch them go and then watching the other teams is a blast. I mean, it is a really remarkable event.

Alana Muller:
Well, I just love the way it brings people together. Tell me a little bit about Kids' Chance of Missouri. What is the organization's mission or what do they do?

Sarah Slaven:
So, I've been fortunate to serve on the board for probably the last five years with Kids' Chance and I've been involved since I joined the firm, mostly because the firm is such a big partner with the Kids' Chance of Missouri and all of the chapters across the state that we work in and nationally a little bit. So, Kids' Chance, we raise money to give scholarships to children whose parents or guardians were killed or seriously injured on the job for their continuing education after high school. So, we aim for any child who meets those requirements, we're working with them, we are seeking them out.

We want to give them the support to continue on their education. I mean, a lot of these students, they may be first-generation college students. So, there are already some obstacles that they're working to overcome. So, now they've had this other obstacle, and that could have happened at any point in their lives. It doesn't stop at high school. At some point in their lives, they've had this huge impact to their family unit. Now we can take a little bit of that off, whether they're going to trade school, whether they're going to a traditional four-year university, whether they're getting their associate's degree. Anything that we can do to support them in furthering their education is what we need to do.

Alana Muller:
Wonderful.

Sarah Slaven:
Yeah, so it's really great and it works hand-in-hand with the firm. So, the majority of our focus is on work comp defense. So, we're seeing this firsthand every day. What better way to support those who are impacted than with Kids' Chance of Missouri, Kids' Chance of Kansas, Illinois, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Iowa. We're there in all of the chapters, all of the events, fundraising, to help as many kids as we can.

Alana Muller:
Amazing. I'm inspired by your commitment that not only do you believe in what they're doing in terms of the mission, but that you're involved as a board member and that you really have, as a firm, given so much in terms of money and other resources to such a worthy organization. So, thank you, what you're doing.

Sarah Slaven:
I'm glad to have the opportunity.

Alana Muller:
Really great. I'd love to know what's the best piece of professional advice that you've each received, whether from a mentor or from anyone else. Sarah, do you want to start us off?

Sarah Slaven:
I'll start us off. I have a feeling I know what Phil's going to say. Mine's going to be a little different. So, I think something that stuck with me in the last couple years is the phrase “do it scared.” For me, being extroverted is not something that's in my natural wheelhouse, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. It just doesn't come super naturally. There are many things — personally, professionally — that I'd be like, "Yeah, I'm a little scared to do that." If I didn't overcome, what's wrong with being scared while you do something? Is it going to harm you? No. Okay, so we're going to step up and we're going to try to do it. It's okay to be scared, and most likely you're not going to be scared at the end of it.

Alana Muller:
I love it.

Sarah Slaven:
Maybe both, but giving it a try. If you don't step out of your comfort zone, you're never going to grow. I think having a support system, people nudging out of the comfort zone is really helpful, too. So, you have that fallback. You can do it scared and you have a safety net. So, that would be something that stuck with me recently.

Alana Muller:
Terrific. Well, and what I like about that in particular, I guess, if it's something that could put you in physical harm or danger, I guess there is that, but I suppose from a business perspective, what's the worst thing that happens, right? So you do it scared and see what happens. So, I think that's great. Great attitude. Phil, how about for you? Is there a great piece of advice that you've received?

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah, I mean, and it's really what we've been doing here and something that we just feel really strongly in, and that is creating a business around your people and not following either what... We talked about law firms and what people think law firms are. The idea would be, we just couldn't be further away from that, is, create an organization that you want, that you can love, that involves your people, that values your people, and build it around that. Then when I said we don't take ourselves too seriously, we feel, always, that if you're doing the right thing, man, everything else just falls in place. It just does. Yes, we're a for-profit firm, and the way we look at that is, we are supporting a really, really large group of families. We're building solutions not just for our employees, but, we're building benefit systems for their families, for their spouses, for their kids. So, it's not just about our employees. It's that extended family, because so much of what happens at home and at work impacts both. So, really build the business around your folks. We couldn't do it without them. I mean, we couldn't and the other is, just be real. Well, don't take yourself too seriously.

Alana Muller:
Yeah. Well, what I really like about what you said is that, so many organizations, they say their number one value or the most important asset they have is their people and yet, I'm not sure if that's what we witness. Sounds like that's what we would witness if we were to step into one of your eight locations, right?

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah, you got to walk the walk. I mean, you just do. You got to walk the walk, because people can identify disingenuous. I mean, they can, and it's back to the values. It's respect everyone and develop real relationships, and that results in a reputation for being that. So, that cycle creates 125 years of success.

Alana Muller:
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Well, so, first of all, it's just been great to have you both on the program. There's a question that I ask all guests, and I'd like to ask each of you, and the question is this. If you could meet with one person, say for a cup of coffee, they could be living, not living, fictional or non-fictional, who would you want to meet and why? Phil, why don't you start?

Phillip Sanders:
Oh, no, ladies first.

Alana Muller:
Oh, I saw the switch up there. All right. Sarah, you're up.

Sarah Slaven:
All right. All right. As cliche as it may sound, I think my answer today would be Taylor Swift.

Alana Muller:
I love it.

Sarah Slaven:
Because she has built such an empire. Talk about a marketing genius, Taylor Swift. You could write so many books on it and also she just seems pretty enjoyable to have a cup of coffee with.

Alana Muller:
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think she's an incredibly impressive woman. I really do. So, I love that you said. Would you say, are you a Swiftie?

Sarah Slaven:
I have to say I'm an OG Swiftie. Yeah.

Alana Muller:
Okay. I love that. That's great. That's great. I myself am a Swiftie, so that's great. So, Phil, is your answer also Taylor Swift?

Phillip Sanders:
I mean, I'm a fan and was never a fan, but I'm just a fan of the person. But also, I'm sorry, man, I'm a little bit of a romantic. I would want to meet both of them. I'd like want to have dinner with them and hang out because I just think they're just fun. They're just fun to watch.

Alana Muller:
I totally agree. For any listener who maybe has been living under a rock, if you don't know who the other one is, Phil, you want to say it?

Phillip Sanders:
Oh, Travis Kelce, man.

Alana Muller:
Travis Kelce, the man, right?

Phillip Sanders:
Yeah.

Alana Muller:
I totally agree. I totally agree. All right. If the two of you get to meet with Taylor and Travis, please include me. I'm right there with you. I would like to meet them as well. I love it. I love it. Well, it's been so fun to have you both. Congratulations again on that — speaking of the OG — that OG Enterprise Games win, I hope you win again this year and I want to thank you both for being on the program. So, Phillip Sanders and Sarah Slaven, where can our listeners go to learn more about the two of you and about MVP Law?

Sarah Slaven:
Absolutely. You can find more information about us on our website, mvplaw.com, and on our social media linked in our Facebook under that same name, MVP Law, will get you to where we're going.

Alana Muller:
Terrific. Thank you so much for being on Enterprise.ing podcast.

Phillip Sanders:
Thank you.

Sarah Slaven:
Awesome. Thank you.

Alana Muller:
Thanks for joining us this week on Enterprise.ing. Be sure to visit our website, enterprisebank.com/podcast to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. If you found value in today's program, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or telling a friend about us. Enterprising, powering business leaders, one conversation at a time.

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