Innovation, Culture and Next-Generation Leadership

Alana Muller:
Welcome to Enterprise.ing, a podcast from Enterprise Bank & Trust that's empowering business leaders one conversation at a time. Each week, we'll hear from top business professionals about lessons on leadership and entrepreneurship that they've learned along the way. I'm your host, Alana Muller, an entrepreneurial executive leader whose primary focus is to connect, inspire and empower community. We at Enterprise Bank & Trust thank you for tuning in to another episode.

Hello listeners, welcome back to Enterprise.ing Podcast. Today, help me welcome Cameron Wies to the program. Cameron is the President and Chief Operating Officer of TJ Wies Contracting, a St. Louis-based industry leader in commercial wall and ceiling craftsmanship, providing labor, materials and excellence to clients in eight states across the Midwest. Cameron Wies, welcome to Enterprise.ing Podcast.

Cameron Wies:
Thank you very much.

Alana Muller:
Great to have you here. Cameron, I understand that TJ Wies Contracting was started by your father, Timothy, in 1994. Tell us about the business and how you came to be President and COO.

Cameron Wies:
I'm third generation in what I call drywall, in the drywall business. My grandfather actually was one of a few gentlemen that brought commercial drywall to St. Louis, back in the late fifties, early sixties. But my father grew up in that industry. There was originally five Wies brothers and four of them owned competing drywall companies. And my dad in '94 decided that he wanted to go his own way and try a different company, so he started TJ Wies Contracting.

It started out in our basement, and so I grew up around it all my life. My very first job at the age of 11 was at some old milk barns where our warehouse was. With a rusty machete, I was told to cut weeds all summer, and so that was job security because they grew up just as fast as I could cut them down. But my goal was always just to do everything right, to learn every position, to be worthy enough not just for my father, but for all of my colleagues to be able to take over this position and hopefully lead us in an ever-growing position.

Alana Muller:
What a cool story, I love that. We'll just set aside the child labor questions, right?

Cameron Wies:
[inaudible 00:02:30].

Alana Muller:
I do like the job security. Well, tell me this, so as a member of a founding family like that, can you talk a little bit about the gradual transition from one generation to another and what that looks like for TJ Wies Contracting?

Cameron Wies:
Yeah. So my dad, I had a very similar upbringing with my dad and how he came into the business. Every summer from 11 to 18, I worked in the warehouse all summer long. Then when I went to, I went to the University of Missouri, Columbia, so Mizzou, and we opened an operation up there a couple years before I started going there. So, I then, every summer lived still in Columbia, but worked out in the field while I was up there and got some field experience. Before we got on here I told you my detour of two years living in Germany and working for a general contractor over in Germany.

And then when I came back to the United States in 2013, I went back out into the field and worked four years to become a journeyman carpenter. Really gained the respect of all the guys, and also just got some field experience and actually built things, the parts and pieces, the assembly side and then started on a career of just coming in as an estimator, then moving into project management and then more operations roles. And just really trying to work my way through every part of the business to be able to understand it from a whole across the board.

Alana Muller:
Yeah, that seems super important to both understand the management side, the behind-the-scenes side, but then also to have that field experience so that not only do you have the credibility, but as you described, the trust.

Cameron Wies:
Trust and then empathy, right? You've been there before. I always think of construction as a series of waves that are coming at you, and some days you can't get a big enough snorkel to get your head above water, and that's just the ups and downs of the construction industry.

So, our philosophy is, "Hey, if we're down, if you're not having a ton of work, well, go take off, go enjoy yourself, go to have some time with your family, because there's going to be other times where the waves are not going to... You just can't get up." So, we just try to think of that and then being in all those roles, you can really empathize and really try to jump in and help different people when they're underwater.

Alana Muller:
I love that. Well, you talked about your time in Germany. Having had that professional experience both domestically and internationally, what are some of the differences and similarities that you've observed in terms of the way businesses operate both domestically and abroad?

Cameron Wies:
Yeah, so my comparisons always I talk about between U.S. and European construction. It's unique, because the U.S. is a very large land continent, but all has a very similar style and type of construction. Europe obviously has a lot of different nationalities, personalities, different things, the kind of cultures that go into that, smaller land size, but just very diverse types of construction and how they go about it. Which is unique and difficult, as you're trying to build for maybe one big national brand, but in multiple different locations all throughout Europe. And then not only just the type of construction, the materials, but also the labor sources and their just general demeanor towards work is very much different.

The northern side is a little bit more trying, more pressing. You get to Italy and Spain and it's always more, "Mañana, mañana, tomorrow we'll get to it." And so, very different cultures overall, which was always very interesting. But there's some different aspects, like the American side is heavy, heavy safety. Some different parts of Europe were a little bit more lax on their safety side.

The German side of it was heavy quality-focused and paying attention to millimeters, where other parts of Europe had way different tolerances. And so, there were one or two things, there's some things they're way advanced than us on, and there's some things that we're a decade ahead of them on. So just very interesting at how different parts of culture really push them to be better at some things, but necessarily not on others.

Alana Muller:
Yeah. Well, what's nice about that is you can bring maybe some of those, and I'm sure that you did, bring some of those ideas back with you and incorporate them into your own company.

Cameron Wies:
Yeah, so luckily I worked with a great team over there when I was working for our general contractor, Baierl & Demmelhuber, and a good friend of mine, who I'm actually the godfather of his firstborn son, so we have a great long-standing relationship. He works still over there for a similar company than the company we worked together with. But one of the things that we've been doing probably about 12 years is called milled drywall, but the drywall consists of the brown paper that's on the backside, the gypsum slurry, which is the gypsum in the inner, and then the white paper that's on the front side.

And so, with this machine you can actually route out the backside of drywall, so you cut out the brown paper, you route out the drywall, but it keeps the white paper intact. So, you can actually make what's called drywall origami, and you can have perfect corners, so you eliminate some of the finishing you're having to do and you can create all kinds of soffits, different shapes like that. And so, that was actually a technology that came out of a company in Rosenheim, Germany while I was over there in Germany, and then we adopted it pretty soon afterwards.

Alana Muller:
That's a great example. I love that you shared that, thank you for that. Well, one of the things that I was impressed to learn about is the TJ Wies culture, that it's built on a foundation of community and family, as you say, and that your corporate values include fun, partnership, safety, integrity and innovation.

In fact, I know that the company motto is, "Work safe, work hard, have fun." How do those concepts shape the way that you operate?

Cameron Wies:
Yeah, so I'm glad you asked this, because I'm halfway through, or maybe two thirds through, the last two years I've sat down with every one of our office employees for about two to three hours towards the end of our fiscal year, which can be daunting at the beginning, because it's five whole weeks of two or three three hour meetings per day, but at the end of the day it's the best thing, I always look back, the best thing I did all year, getting everybody's opinions and just having a great conversation about topics that we don't necessarily talk about. But that's fun and family are some of the biggest topics that came up overall.

And I don't, as large as we are, everybody says, "Oh, we should be more of a corporate environment, but we love the family aspect of it." We were talking about that and I'm like, I just don't know why it has to be so complicated. At a certain point, I just think maybe companies get it wrong and just start putting profits before people. But at the end of the day, if you're doing it right and you're caring about the right things, and you're trying to develop and grow together and have great family and great professional lives, spend a lot of time with people, I don't understand what the disconnect is. Why you can't have both, or you shouldn't be striving to make sure that you're creating fulfilling thing for everybody along with yourself.

Alana Muller:
So great. I think everybody wants to work for a company like that, so I think you're right. I think you're right, because we end up spending a whole lot of time with the people we work with, and so they become often like family. So, I love that you have made that really central to the way that you operate as a company and a culture.

Cameron Wies:
Yeah. And I have taken over and grown in my role and got over a little bit of the imposter syndrome. I look at it that the number one goal I have, and if I do this one part of my job correct, all other parts will just come up. But, my one goal is to collect some of the greatest people. If I collect great people, then the rest of it will work out. And we've had the pleasure of being able to collect three great people this year, and one of the things that really stood out for me was that I felt our family atmosphere, our culture, everything there had just as much to offer to them and what they were seeking, as they had for us.

Sure, we have a job, we have some job responsibilities, we would love them take off, but I felt like what we can bring as a group of people and just that, they were looking in their own personal lives, and that's pretty special when you think you can impact them as much as they think they can impact your organization.

Alana Muller:
Definitely. And I like that you recognize that it's a two-way street, right? This has to be a partnership. So, that's a great way to think about that. In fact, I noticed that you've shared that one of the best pieces of advice that you've ever received is to trust your team, and that only through working together will any single person achieve greatness, that really it's a team sport. And so, with that in mind, how do you cultivate authentic relationships with your internal team and with your clients?

Cameron Wies:
That's a great question. I think the number one would be just have fun, don't take yourself too seriously, make sure it's an enjoyable environment. Be doing things that... And then recognizing that everybody has different ideas of fun, but be able to try everything out, and let people be their own personalities.

We have different people that are very much into F3, and some other different groups and stuff, and trying to get them to be able to want to evangelize and tell other people in the organization. We just had last week, and I was not able to make it because I was chasing the kids around between soccer games, but they did 22 Strong, which is a 22-mile hike with a group of people for the 22 veterans that die by suicide every single day.

Alana Muller:
Wow.

Cameron Wies:
And just different organizations and, once again, letting everybody lead their own and bring their own spice to the culture. I look at it, I did not build this culture. Some of the culture is built off of my dad who is the founder, his own personality, but I'm a curator. I'm the steward of it overall. I didn't build it myself, I can just help be part of the maintaining group and keep it the way we want it to be.

Alana Muller:
Terrific. I think that's great. Well, so with all that goodness, I know that sometimes there are challenges that we face, and are there some major challenges or obstacles that you faced? And if so, how are you able to overcome those to emerge as a stronger leader?

Cameron Wies:
I'll have to think over that one. I'm sure there's always day-to-day challenges, but none that come to mind right away. Only because I think, sure, you're going to have some insecurities not knowing if you have... You're making the right decision. Best way I've done is just run it past everybody, just make sure that I get enough opinions to know. I'm more of a collaborative leader.

And then you eventually learn to trust your gut, you know? You know that your very first move... And then at the end of the day, I'm a big believer... My wife doesn't like this part of me, but I'm a really good devil's advocate, so I always see the other side of things. And so, I always just look at any tough decision, anything like that, if I was on the opposite side, how would I want it handled that way? And just trying to find fairness in anything that we do.

Alana Muller:
I love that. It's good advice. It's good advice for all of us. And frankly, I know the devil's advocate can feel frustrating, but it does, I think, help us to become even more grounded in the things that we believe in, so I think that that makes sense.

Cameron Wies:
I just always like to tell her, I'm like, "Hey, I'll throw it out this way. I know this seems overwhelming or different things like that, but if you look at it from these two perspectives, I would argue that we may live in the top 1% of the world, as far as what we have available to us and all the things that the freedom we have. And then if you look at it, we probably live in the top 1% of all human society ever. So, if you look at it from that side, I'm not sure what we have to complain about." And I just like to look at it perspective-wise from that.

Alana Muller:
It does put things in perspective. I like that. I think that's great. Is there something that you're working on now that you're especially excited about and you can share with us?

Cameron Wies:
Yeah. The two things that really motivate me most, because I had to deal with this idea in the last couple years is, since I was 11, my main drive was to be worthy enough to take over this role, and then when I succeeded and my father retired and I was able to not screw it up, then I was like, "Wow, that's kind of unique. I'm in my mid-thirties, not even forties, and I've hit my lifetime goal. Now I guess I’ve got to come up with a new goal, a new why." And so, I gave myself about a three-year period to come up with that.

And the things that really motivate me that I've learned is that I'm motivated by trying to be a steward leader and really use some of the thoughts that I have on automation and technology to take the mundane tasks out of people's... And try to use that and help build that. I really enjoy developing people and sharing that, and then the learning from others. And then I really get interested in basically improving construction processes, where others think it might be impossible. I just purely believe that there's nothing that's impossible in this day and age, it's just a matter of time or money, but really putting in the effort to try to see how we can maybe move the needle a little bit.

Alana Muller:
That's fun. It seems that you can pick any problem, any challenge, or even something maybe that's working that could be working even better and getting your team involved. Have you found that you have teammates who are eager to jump in with you to try some of those new ideas out?

Cameron Wies:
Yeah. We're actually just starting off a process that is called BOS, but the most known one is EOS, and it's a business operating system. But we're taking it... We've always had a very strong continuous improvement culture, but we're trying to focus on, okay, how do we have an agreed upon vision, five-year goal, try to get everybody rowing in the same direction? And then also, we've always had a good structure about incremental improvement, but the thing that I've heard is not everybody knows what we're doing or why we're doing it, so trying to put a little bit more structure around it.

So, we have our quarter goals and trying to eat an elephant one bite at a time, but more use it as a way to make sure that we're keeping it in front of everybody, so they know of all the small things we're doing daily. Because that's the hardest thing, even if you're improving. My dad always told me, "Hey, we're a cruise ship, not a jet ski. So, if you're going to change directions, it's got to be slow and steady." So, even if you're improving things, if the communication and the implementation's not there, you lose people along the way. And so, just trying to always make sure we're doing it in the correct fashion, and then that's a journey that we're just starting down that path.

Alana Muller:
That's great. Well, have loved having you on the program. There's one question that I ask every guest and I want to ask you as well before we close out. If you could sit down for a cup of coffee with anyone, it can be someone living, not living, fictional, or non-fictional, who would it be and why?

Cameron Wies:
So, I've been asked this question before, and I didn't have a great answer for that one, so I tried to do better if I ever got asked this question again. But I'll be honest, I'd probably like to sit down with my grandfather, my dad's dad, who actually brought drywall to St. Louis in some form or fashion. Mostly because as I got older, to be to the point where I could have a conversation and better understanding about the industry and different things… he unfortunately had tongue cancer and lost a tongue. And so, we never had that ability to have a lot of conversation to understand some of these fun old stories, or different things like that, and he became a quieter man. So, if I were able to roll back and be able to when he was more in his prime, I think that would be a very special thing for me.

Alana Muller:
That is special. I wondered if you might say that, when you told the story that he was the one who brought drywall to St. Louis, and how that came to be the beginnings of the family business. Yeah.

Cameron Wies:
[inaudible 00:19:11] Let me say [inaudible 00:19:12] there were a couple other gentlemen there, so I don't want to take away from their aspects too. But the interesting things that I did, the stories I did get out of him, is the difference when he retired, I think in '96, he just said the industry had changed so much that he was done with the industry, and when he started in the fifties when he was young and in his twenties, a contract might be signed by going to the bar and having six or seven beers and writing a number on a cocktail napkin and shaking over it, and that was your agreement. And the world had changed too much for him from coming from where it used to be, so he was ready to be done with construction.

Alana Muller:
Yeah, I get it. I don't know if those were the good old days or the bad old days, but they definitely were different, right? Maybe easier in some respects, so I get that. It makes a lot of sense.

Well, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the program. Cameron Wies, where can our listeners go to learn more about you and about TJ Wies Contracting?

Cameron Wies:
Sure. Our website is www.tjwies.com, and if you want to check out some more interesting things we might be doing to pioneer prefabrication modular construction, www.tjwiesprefab.com.

Alana Muller:
Terrific. Cameron Wies, thank you so much for being on Enterprise.ing podcast.

Cameron Wies:
No, thank you, Alana.

Alana Muller:
Thanks for joining us this week on Enterprise.ing. Be sure to visit our website, enterprisebank.com/podcast to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. If you found value in today's program, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or telling a friend about us. Enterprise.ing, powering business leaders, one conversation at a time.

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